Korerorero Kōhine: A Librarian interviews Colleen Maria Lenihan, author of Kōhine

Recently at Auckland Central Library Research Centre, we’ve been celebrating contemporary wāhine Māori writers of innovative fiction - creative fiction which shapeshifts in form and genre with the power and flow of atua wāhine. We want our Indigenous collections to be embraced in a space dedicated to and curated by the author. We began with Talia Marshall’s pukapuka Whaea Blue. This time we’re showcasing the magical and healing hit of auto composite fiction, Kōhine, by Colleen Maria Lenihan. Similar to Whaea Blue, Kōhine defies genre, time and space and takes you on an enlightened yet haunting journey into the spiritual realm and back, through narrative twists and turns of memoir, poetry, and interconnected short fiction. 

The following kaupapa is an interview with Colleen on Kōhine: 

Rin Smeaton: Kia ora to you Colleen. Our mutual hoa Talia suggested that I talk to you! First of all, I wanted you to know that my co-worker Ash read Kōhine when it first got published and couldn't stop raving about it! I’m reading Kōhine currently and wow! It’s the most beautiful, translucent spirit memories I've ever experienced in print.

I spent some time in Japan too and I immediately recognise that nostalgic wairua that's so unique to the culture there. Recently Talia helped us curate a small but cool space in our research centre (Level 2 of the central city library) featuring her pukapuka 'Whaea Blue.' We sure had a great time decorating it to Talia's wishes. Now we’d like to know whether you'd be interested in being the next writer / artist to co-curate this space? Talia recommended Kōhine as she too was blown away by the beauty of its spirit and skill.

Colleen Maria Lenihan: Kia ora Rin. What a lovely message, it made my day! Thank you for reading my pukapuka. I got back from Japan a couple days ago and just regrouping at the moment before starting back at work on Monday. I'd be honoured to be the next writer featured - thank you so much for asking me. I admired the lovely book shrine you made for Whaea Blue and Talia, I saw pics on her instagram, and I'm grateful to her for recommending Kōhine for this awesome kaupapa. I'm excited!

RS: Love Directions! It’s like a poem. You’re so gifted. Lots of introspective contemplative writers write poetically and lyrically but struggle with dialogue. But that’s not you eh?! Kōhine shows that you’re fluent with both introspection and dialogue! That’s so cool. Were you a screenwriter first?

CML: That’s really kind, thank you! My first attempt at writing seriously was a short film script that I wrote sometime in the 2000s while still living in Japan. I even had it translated into Japanese, but l lost it when a hard drive failed. Years later, in 2016 when I started to write fiction, I remembered this lost film script, and decided to write it again as a short story: Love Hotel. I then decided to pursue screenwriting once I realised how impossible it was to support myself through writing fiction - I saw Shortland Street on TV and thought, that show’s on every night - I need to get a job there. I later met Annette Morehu, who recommended me to the head writer at Shortland Street, which eventually led to me being trialed as a storyliner. In the meantime, Annette offered me a trial script for Ahikāroa, which led to writing scripts for several seasons. Now I’ve been working at Shorty for three years and have learned a huge amount about storytelling. I really love TV, I obsessively watch shows, and it is a dream come true to work in a writers’ room. 

RS: Same. Ngā mihi nui ki a koe Colleen. I’ve been wondering which books have influenced your writing?

CML: Here are some books which influenced the writing of Kōhine:

Bright Lights, Big City by Jay McInerney - the second person point of view isn’t used often, and can be tricky to pull off - this is probably the most famous example of it being used successfully. I was impressed that the author managed to maintain second person throughout the whole novel. It’s my favourite POV to write in, and there are a couple of stories in Kōhine written in this POV, the first and the last. 

RS: I’m also a big fan of a voice in second person. I love the intimacy and spiritual breath that it invokes. I could feel the life pulse and in some way also the embrace of an understanding especially in your first and last stories. Beautiful how you wrap Kōhine in a first and last story with this hā (via voice).Why is it your favourite POV? Why did you choose this perspective to use in this way?

CML: “...spiritual breath that it invokes.” I love this! When I write in the second person, I feel like the writing seems to have an almost breathless quality and the story seems to write itself. Gnossienne No. 1 was written in a couple of afternoons, and Leaping-off Place II, was written in one sitting. That one in particular felt channelled. My editor Daisy Coles said she got goosebumps when reading it, and suggested only a single word change.  Usually I self-edit a lot when I write, for example there was one sentence in the book I probably rewrote at least fifty times, but this story came out perfectly formed. This is why I love writing in the second person, I feel like I tap into something outside myself. I didn’t write it, the story was already in the ether, waiting for me to be ready. 

Tenth of December by George Saunders - what I like about the short stories in this collection is how unusual and inventive they are - it inspired me to take creative risks in my book, and to experiment with different approaches. 

Lincoln in the Bardo by George Saunders - while this isn’t my favourite George Saunders book, the story 'Directions' in my book features multiple crow narrators, and this was inspired by the multiple ghost narrators in this novel. 

The Pillow Book by Sei Shōnagon - In this ancient text which was meant for the author’s eyes only, she confesses her personal feelings, likes and dislikes, and keen observations of the beauty in the world around her. I especially love her lists, with titles such as “Things That Make One’s Heart Beat Faster” (a line I stole and had a crow character use when describing hearing music), “Elegant Things” and the very funny “Hateful Things”. The writing is infused with “mono no aware” a Japanese concept which means “the pathos of things” which refers to an awareness of the transient nature of things and the gentle melancholy this arouses, a theme I thought about often while writing Kōhine. 

RS: Totally got this “mono no aware” vibe while reading Kōhine. I find myself having to take contemplative breaks and re-readings just to fully experience its beauty of pulse. Bless you Colleen. Kōhine kinda feels like a prayer book in this way. Did your awareness of transience always exist? Was it from your upbringing, your Māoritanga, or from your experience in Japan?

CML: I would say it’s an awareness I’ve had for a long time, and perhaps it does mostly come from my Māoritanga. Studying photography definitely informed this sensibility, as there is an inherent pathos in capturing the way light hits a form. The photograph captures light traces of what-has-been.

When I was at art school in Whanganui in the 90s, I wrote a thesis titled 'Photography and Death.' At the time, I was inspired by Roland Barthes’ book Camera Lucida: Reflections on Photography. I especially love this passage: “The photograph is literally an emanation of the referent. From a real body, which was there, proceed radiations which ultimately touch me, who am here; the duration of the transmission is insignificant; the photograph of the missing being, as Sontag says, will touch me like the delayed rays of a star.”

I related this to Māori attitudes towards photography, having been moved by witnessing whānau at tangi speaking to photographs of tūpuna as if they were still alive. Michael King questioned Makere Hose about this in his book Being Pakeha. He quotes her as saying, “It’s got her image, you see. And that image is their mauri. Whenever I see a picture of that person then I feel that person’s mauri, and so long as I can feel that mauri, then it’s alive, never mind that the person is dead.”

The Tibetan Book of the Dead - The Void is inspired by true events, when I stole a copy of this book from a friend (something I would normally never do) because I strongly sensed that I needed it, and then my daughter suddenly died not long after. 

Norwegian Wood by Haruki Murakami - about nostalgia and loss, I was moved by a line in the text referring to a young girl who had taken their own life - “Only the dead stay seventeen forever.” and paid homage to this line in my story Cherryblossom Girl, and to the book in Gnossienne No. 1.

RS: I was struck by how Maia and the director met at the end of The Void and had like this unstated understanding of the moment.The tangihanga and Aria’s arrangements. It’s both profoundly tender and gut-wrenching.] Considering these stories are based on real people and life events and each so connected to each other, do you think it’s fair to describe Kōhine as a short story collection?

CML: That happened in real life too. The director is Gaspar Noe. I got to know him while he was shooting his film Enter The Void in Tokyo. Regarding your question, I started out writing them as standalone short stories, then began linking them. I think it’s more accurate to describe Kōhine as a short story cycle, or perhaps a composite novel but people usually don’t know what that is. I have realised that the book is confusing for some readers - some read it thinking it’s a novel and then get frustrated by how fractured it is, which is understandable.  

Pounamu Pounamu by Witi Ihimaera - this short story collection made a huge impression on me as a child. In hindsight, perhaps that’s why I chose short stories as my first foray into writing fiction.

RS: Do you remember the impression it left for you reading Pounamu Pounamu as a child? Who introduced you to it? How did you discover his short stories?

CML: What I mostly remember is how surprising it was for me to read about Māori characters - I read voraciously as a child, so it was truly startling as it had never happened before. I especially loved A Game of Cards - I loved the kuia bickering over playing cards and cracked up over the cheeky insult “Mako tiko bum.” The Mākutu on Mrs Jones is another favourite, and I love the twist at the end.  

RS: I absolutely have to read it now! I was also wondering…What’s your favourite Japanese food?

CML: Otoro sushi - this is the premium fatty belly of the tuna and it melts in your mouth. He reka, yum! I also love natto and miso soup. And yakitori from my favourite place in Nakameguro. Japanese food is the best. I could live off stuff from the konbini - it’s so great to be able to buy cheap, nourishing food 24/7. I always get a tamago sando and a tuna mayo onigiri.  Japanese bakeries are also amazing, especially the ones in depachika, which are extensive, dazzling food markets in the basements of department stores. I could walk around those for hours. I’m getting hungry thinking about it!
RS: He reka, same!! Did you learn lots of Japanese slang while living in Tokyo?

CML: One of my favourites is: KY. Which stands for kuuki yomenai, literally ‘can’t read the air.’ Someone who is KY can’t read the room, or is oblivious to the mood of another person.  

RS: Ooof! Love it! What’s your favourite Japanese proverb?

CML: While it’s not a proverb, it’s an idiom, it would have to be 物の哀れ: mono no aware. While it literally means “the pathos of things” I’ve also read it translated as “the ah-ness of things.” I also like 一期一会: ichi-go ichi-e. One time, one meeting. It’s a reminder that this moment will never happen again, each moment is unique and we should treasure each one. 

RS: What’s your favourite whakataukī/whakatauaki Māori?

CML: The one that I chose for the epigraph of Kōhine: E kore au e ngāro, he kākano i ruia mai i Rangiātea. It is engraved on my daughter Monique’s headstone.

RS: That’s beautiful Colleen. Kia ora. Last but not least (& this question I’ve stolen from Talia and it’s possible that I’m saving the best question till last) who’s your most famous tupuna?

CML: In my pepeha, my mum taught me to acknowledge Kupe. My great great great grandfather is Heremia Te Wake, who was Whina Cooper’s father, so Whina is my great great aunt. Ralph Hotere’s mother Ana Maria, and my great grandmother Maata Taniere (Daniels) were sisters. Ralph is my first cousin, twice removed.

Ko Panguru te maunga

Ko Hokianga te moana

Ko Ngātokimatawhaorua te waka

Ko Kupe te tangata

Ko Te Rarawa me Ngāpuhi ōku iwi 

Ko Colleen Maria Lenihan tōku ingoa. 

RS: He Tupuna Toa! I’ve been thinking about Dame Whina a lot recently (Toitu te Tiriti!) Kia ora anō Colleen for sharing insights about the taonga in your life in Japan and Aotearoa with our book loving coven at Auckland Libraries. We look forward to enjoying a kaputi with you next time you call into Central to see your curated display with all the pukapuka we’ve been discussing. 

I hope you too, library friends, call in to enjoy the tranquility and flow of this space inspired by Kōhine. Please stay tuned to a mind blowing critical response to Kōhine by Ash, our research librarian, resident book expert! Arohanui.

Tēnā koutou tēnā tātou tēnā rā koutou katoa!

E kore au e ngāro, he kākano i ruia mai i Rangiātea

I will never be lost, I’m a seed sown from Rangiātea

Author: Rin Smeaton