Novel 'Whaea Blue' by Talia Marshall: A librarian's review and an interview with the author

SILK

Talia Marshall

When you were born I was a spider

There was a giant red ear on the ceiling

Follow me follow

Little fly

I was sorry I had you in my web

For three days I looked and looked at you

and thought what is this?

rapture has never been on my wish list

but there you were,

your firsts made the same lion talk

of your father raised beside your head

It was the dark O of your mouth

that drew my eyes into you like vapour

no, you were not the one I would eat later

but the tender beads of water

glistening on the web

I knew I was holding onto you by a thread

But the thread was strong and made of silk

I hold you to me by a thread

Talia Marshall released her long-awaited memoir-adjacent book, an essayistic compounding of word, memory, place, and persons. Each section of prose more emotionally whiplashing than the next, the devoutness of people who followed her work earlier on only became more steadfast. 

As such, the building of a librarian-founded, trippingly hallucinogenre, constellation-esque altar dedicated to the formidable, forthright and spiritually-imbued author Talia Marshall at Central City Library came into being. Sitting spaces, display shelves, invocations of poetry and decor that seek to both summon and respect the essence of Talia - walking through the custom research space is a humble embarkation on a hikoi through Talia’s tastes.

You’ll find Janet Frame (whose recent century was celebrated by literary enthusiasts all over the world), Becky Manawatu, Carin Smeaton, and a whole ‘nother host of illustriously breathtaking writers and musicians - all brought together to rise in a  chorus of bird song that Talia references in her pukapuka. 

To tie this all off and up from our library and for our offering- here’s a review from one of our research librarians on the debut novel itself, ‘Whaea Blue’, followed by an interview with its astounding author. 

Hungry. Intense. Ruminative. Undulating. Wary. Always full.

In the days leading up - no, the weeks leading up to me reading Talia Marshall’s debut novel, ‘Whaea Blue’ I felt as if some type of emotional blanket had been over me. It wasn’t nagging, it wasn’t overwhelming, it was there, though - wary and waiting. I had been sitting on my porch, sighing with more emotion than I was letting myself see, and singing waiata that reminded me of my people and my mum into the cool grace of the night.

I think my neighbours didn’t mind. I don’t really care who hears me sing when I’m on my porch , I like my singing voice and most of it is drowned out by the main road anyway, and it is one of the only activities that makes me feel like I’m actually exhaling. But, I realised halfway through Whaea Blue, that the sadness, the mournfulness, the steeped and poignant remembrance of my mum and sister (who are both very much alive), was an intuitive preparation for the heft of Talia’s book.

(I won’t say ‘Marshall’s book.’ It feels disrespectful for what she gave)

There’s nothing easy about this book. I craved every chapter, and waited anxiously to be left alone so I could read it, but still felt indescribably taut. The membrane that held back the tears and the too-weighty heave of my chest, felt more stretched and more brittle with almost every page. And still, Talia keeps speaking to you. There is no rest - a mutual sharing - and it was (and still is), disrespectful to look away from her words.

Her writing is robust. Cool, if you want a contemporarily-toned descriptor. But a gentleness, a tenderness springs up from her sentences at times where she knows, maybe for herself and for us, a lighter hand is necessary.

There is an unreality to her kupu. A mystical sense of truth and a veiled something else that feels like the blue her book is named with. And like the colour blue, her washes of thought to experience to emotion are so of the wai that you feel like you are in the deep, moving from high to low tide with her. Not experiencing her, but on your back across from her, in the sometimes crystal-clear, sometimes murky water.

Listening, but both of you are vulnerable.

She’s both plain-spoken and capacious. Hardy and beyond-thorough. And a love that seems too light for the English word, steeps the world she guides us through. I don’t want to compare her to other writers, but I've been reading a lot of Janet Frame lately. And the quickness of her sentences, the desperation that sometimes lines her words in a separate yet omnipresent way, remind me of Janet. Both are unafraid to look, even if they say they are.

I don’t know, really. I love books that make me feel connected and obsessed with finishing them. That force emotion to the top like when you make a boilup and wait for the fat to rise. Talia’s book was all that and more and different. Breaks from reading were necessary, but still unappreciated. The wild and wide-eyed look you took at her life is enough for it to sit in your stomach. The bluntness of it all is just round enough for you to continue. You have to borrow some of her tenacity to see it through. You have to let the whakamā of that be okay. 

Her chapters are unforgiving and still so profoundly tender. The experience of her book is literary, ethereal and bottomless - a book that breeds some resistance in how stretched you feel.  But you know, in your heart of hearts, that only speaks to the caliber of her voice. 

I felt like I learned how to breathe again - breathe through and not just breathe. Hā ki roto. Hā ki waho. Singing isn’t the only thing that can force me to breathe. Talia Marshall’s writing has always been able to do that. But it was in this book, in this hikoī through her voice, life and whakaaro, that breathing became an act of release. Not a final conclusion, as her book understands, but a practice in release. 

Thank you Talia. This will stay with me. 

Ashlee K.O.

Interview with author of Whaea Blue: Talia Marshall

Thank you Talia for sharing your inspiration and favourites with us Aucklanders. Ash and me [Rin] are huge fangirls of your work. Ash has written a beautiful response to Whaea Blue which we want to put up on our Heritage Blog if that’s ok with you. It blew me away and Princess, I hope you can see how your wairua and whakaaro are so influential across the motu.

Image: Mary Lawrance, 1796 - 1799, A Collection of Roses From Nature. Auckland Libraries Heritage Collection, b2960492

Rin Smeaton: You have an incredible collection of photos from when you were growing up. How did you manage to keep hold of them after all this time? So who’s the archivist in the family?

Talia Marshall: Mum? and my nana and grandad, and we moved about 10 times when I was little, so mum has kept stuff for me for years and I steal it from her and sometimes when I put up a photo on Facebook, mum will say, "oh is that where that's gone", because I’m not good at looking after things and it might be the end of the object.

Also I’m pleased there’s actually not that many photos, now people have a million photos of themselves and it almost cheapens the memory, but also it's handy to have a constant record for everything we do I guess. I’ve had a bag of my son’s baby clothes that I have managed to keep  together through all of my instability, and after the book was published, I said, 'hang on I think I still have my formal dress",  what I'm wearing on my cover and it was in the bag of baby clothes.  

Rin: That’s amazing Talia, you still got the dress.

Talia: Well I’ll probably never get married now so.

Rin: If your book was to be made into a movie, who would direct? who would want to play you?

Talia: Ooh Victor Rodger said something when I was talking to his students, he was like, 'this could work as a script', and I was like 'nooo..for one.. it’s got barely any dialogue.' Dialogue is something I can’t do,  I can do reported speech, but straight out dialogue is not for me for some reason, I think that is to do with the way I felt about the world at the time, and you get my perception of what the person is saying around the speech, if that makes sense. So I said to Victor and his students that it’s too interior, nothing really happens, you only get the impression that stuff is happening except for, I guess the bits with Isaac yea, stuff happened…I just can’t see it as a movie but if that improbable thing ever happened I would pick um…

…I really don’t know, I don’t know, I think Frances McDormand could do a pretty decent version of my Nana, she’s pretty subtle, pretty good with subtext. Kate Bush could play Mum, me, I wanna say Salma Hayek but she’s probably too short and older than me, although she looks about 10 years younger. David Lynch could direct and Dolly Parton would be my fairy godmother. Actually Barbara Hershey in her prime would be perfect to play my Mum, I think it's best to leave Kate Bush out of this.

Image: La Sylphide, The Meridian Season, 2009, Auckland Libraries Heritage Collection Eph-poster, 01524.

Rin: And if you were to cook up a big feast in the marae kitchen for this cast and crew, which authors from your display picks and inspirations (feel free to deviate) would help you in the kitchen?

And what would you have for mains and desserts for this occasion? 

Talia: Oh Becky Manawatu. Totally Becky. Becky’s a great cook and is used to cooking for more people than me. So Becky, just me and Becky, and I’d have to take lots of breaks so basically just Becky, and oh my friend Masoumeh caters movies over in Sydney, but we’d probably have a falling out over something stupid like raspberries. And also my friend Kelly, who’s Delphi in the book she’s an amazing cook. I’d have my Grandma because she was a caterer and I’d have Paul, my Dad, he'd be fluffing about. I don't know about the rest of those authors and I’m not willing to find out, except I'd have Colleen Maria Lenihan in the kitchen because Kōhine is one of the most beautiful pukapuka I have ever read.

Rin: What would we have for a main?

Talia: Oh all takes on Māori food but, you know, a bit bourgie, that’s what I had at my launch, I got a Māori caterer. That was the first time Te Herenga Waka University Press had got them. And they did little canape things with coconut fish, fry bread and there was even a box for vegans with, I think horopito mayonnaise? Yea ..but for pudding I’d just make a pavlova. Yea, we could just have some pav.

Ooh and Vongole and crayfish! crayfish done 3 ways...and um you know how when you go to a chinese restaurant they do that drunk blue cod so it’s kinda got that coating of batter but they pour  rice wine and other stuff over it so it’s both crispy on the outside and soft on the inside? And they cover it with spring onions. And dumplings, pāua ravioli, oh no, don’t get me started on food.

Image: Eric Young, 1980-89, Crayfish pots, Auckland Libraries Heritage Collection, 1021-2155.

Rin: Do you want to recommend a few DVD's or CD's for your Whaea Blue display?

Talia: Nina Simone's Baltimore Album, The Harder They Come soundtrack with Jimmy Cliff on it. I suppose Rumours and Tusk and the one with Rooms on Fire is on, I don’t know which album that’s on, even though I have a Stevie Nicks fixation.

Oh that Lumidee song that finishes the book, Uh oh Uh oh. I had this whole launch playlist actually that started with still Dr. Dre. I'm trying to think of what’s in the book..oh. Guy Clark. Guy, his Texas Cookin album. Oh and The Smiths, but Morrisey, *draws in breath* Morrisey, f**k it. Morrisey. Boy loves The Smiths. This Charming Man was his Dad's getting ready to go out song. He'd usually have to pick a fight with me first so he could leave, he’d have it all planned. 

Oh and E Hine E by Atareta Maxwell - that’s been on loop for me since Nana died, it's good to wail along to plus the Good Night Kiwi. Kiri’s version of Pokarekare ana, plus Chopin the etudes, part of the ’l'études. And for Dvds, I guess Dracula because we watched it when I met him (Paul). And Summer Magic with Hayley Mills and the Anne of Green Gables tv series.

Gillian Welch’s Revelator, that album was massive for me the year I was living in Wellington. My son was about 1, he listens to it a lot. And Emmylou Harris’ Wrecking Ball, there u go *laughs apologetically* there you go, more mahi for Rin

Rin: Anne of Green Gables is one of your book picks princess, could u tell us Aucklanders why she’s so cool please?

Talia: Oh she gets in scrapes, and she can’t see that Gilbert loves her. It was a date night with my grandparents after the Lotto. I think the first Lotto broadcast was July 31st 1987, that’s when I moved to my grandparents for six months and it premiered. The first weekend I was staying with them, we devoured that series together, we all loved it - me, Nana and Grandad, big fans of Anne… and  Marilla and Matthew. Matthew is so lovely to her and gentle, what’s not to love? Leg of mutton sleeves, those puffed sleeves she was obsessed with.

Rin: Enchanted about Anne too, your other picks are also treasures! Do you wanna comment about any of the Aotearoa ones e hoa?

Talia: I read Mutuwhenua when I was 13, that was formative .. the game of cards from Pounamu Pounamu being read out loud to us on the mat was huge for me because I had a Māori teacher, Mr Te Whaiti, and he would do all the voices of the nannies.. and we got it read out loud, and he just made them all come to life, as well as Witi’s words I can’t think of a better person to be read Pounamu Pounamu to than by a Māori man school teacher. He was great actually, probably one of the best school teachers I’ve ever had

Also the Maurice Gee's O Trilogy, particularly the Priests of Ferris, I think it is such a cinematic book. It would make the most amazing movies, but only if people did it right, it would be one of those things I’d have strong feelings about. I loved the Blood Cat and the Varg. Then I think the Changeover by Margaret Mahy was pretty much the first romance I ever read because essentially that’s what it is, and the Carmody character was just so creepy. Extraordinary, our children’s writers are extraordinary.

Rin: Finally, for the kaupapa, what’s your fave kupu Māori and/or whakatauki?

Talia: My favourite Māori kupu is 'Inaianei'. It’s just so musical - and it’s funny that it means 'now' because I’m not that good with the present tense. I don’t tend to occupy it and the favourite whakataukī would be the kumara crowing. The kumara does not crow of its own sweetness.. because that’s just so ridiculous, imagining a kumara crowing.  I found this kumara gif to use for my students when I was lecturing Te Tiriti. It was of a dancing kumara, and it was creepy, and kind of disgusting watching a kumara wriggle. I think some of our whakataukī become a bit-preloved, like when somebody dies and everyone says a mighty totara has fallen, especially when they use it for a Pakeha..I mean, yea, I'm like, has it? (chuckles) sorry..

But the most beautiful one would be the one of the rerenga.. he kōtuku tahi, that the white heron only flies once, which will always be for Keri Hulme, now but also, oh, I just got the chills, for Angus my e hoa because actually that year.. it flew twice.. although I think maybe Keri died just before 2022 when we lost Angus to whakamomori. It should only be used for very special people and they both were.

Rin: Lots of love to you, Queen. Arohanui. Please come up to Auckland to see your display. 

Mahuru Māori

Kupu Māori:

Ināianei 

(now)

Whakataukī: 

Kāore te kumara e kōrero mō tōna ake reka 

(the Kumara does not crow of its own sweetness)

Kua hinga te Tōtara i Te Waonui a Tāne

(A great Totara has fallen)

He kōtuku rerenga tahi 

(The white heron only flies once)

'Whaea Blue' exhibition is now open and thriving on Level 2 Auckland Central Research Centre. 

Author: Rin Smeaton and Ashlee Keelan-Orr.